Author Topic: Sangheili biology & culture discussion  (Read 47405 times)

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Offline Spog

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2010, 03:55:15 PM »
Now I have a very important question: How many times has Zeno stuck out his tongue to "smell" the air in front of less knowledgeable people?
"With the stigma feasting upon your flesh I wish you well! Thorns from the fountains of fate licking lepered skin! Worshiped by anyone's mass on our planet hell! What on earth possessed you!?" ~Dimmu Borgir "Kings of the Carnival Creation"

Offline Slaskia

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2010, 04:20:17 PM »
None to my knowledge.  I don't write him 'smelling' like a lizard or snake.

Offline Spog

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2010, 04:58:35 PM »
I meant as to weird them out ;)
"With the stigma feasting upon your flesh I wish you well! Thorns from the fountains of fate licking lepered skin! Worshiped by anyone's mass on our planet hell! What on earth possessed you!?" ~Dimmu Borgir "Kings of the Carnival Creation"

Offline Slaskia

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2010, 05:11:32 PM »
Heh, I see him only doing it once just to see how they react.  Probably right after hearing a human speculate on Sangheili sense of smell within earshot.

Offline Spog

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #19 on: February 08, 2010, 04:53:30 PM »
R@NDOM: I wonder if they would adopt basketball.  Seems perfect to me.  Running, jumping, aim and shoot, competition.  It'd be dope ;D
"With the stigma feasting upon your flesh I wish you well! Thorns from the fountains of fate licking lepered skin! Worshiped by anyone's mass on our planet hell! What on earth possessed you!?" ~Dimmu Borgir "Kings of the Carnival Creation"

Offline Slaskia

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #20 on: February 08, 2010, 08:23:47 PM »
Great, now you got me seeing Zeno trying out for the NBA....:P

On a more serious note:

Warm-blooded (eg humans and other mammals in general), cold blooded (reptilians like snakes and lizards), or somewhere in-between (some species of shark)?

Keep in mind that the Sangheilos system has three suns and that Sangheilos itself is on the inner edge of the habitable zone in the system.  One source states that the tempature range is not that different from ours despite that(-5C to 56C (23F to 132.8F) avg temps, though I forget what the source is, probably one of the Beastariums), though with a noticeable lack of extreme cold weather.

We know that cold-blooded creatures on our own planet inhabit places where it is suitably warm for at least most of the year for them and that those that do live in areas with an actual cold season likely hibernate.  I think it is safe to say that even -5C (23F) would put a cold blooded creature into a sluggish state and Sangheili do not strike me as the hibernation types.  If Sangheili were cold-blooded, I could see them avoiding such colder regions of their planet, or only going into them when adequately protected from the cold.

Come to think of it, I remember a passage in The Cole Protocol where Thel is standing on a balconey in his keep or something, with only a cloak for protection from the cold wind I think? *looks it up*

Ah, here it is, on page 349:

’Thel had a new shipmaster’s cloak that tugged and kicked at him in the cold mountain wind.’

Granted, what a Sangheili would consider ‘cold’ would likely be different than ours, but it does seem to suggest that Sangheili are not cold-blooded, considering Thel was obviously not that bothered by said ‘cold mountain wind’.

Offline Spog

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2010, 07:23:04 AM »
Arg, about the temperatures, I've obviously gotten them wrong.  My idea is that the general equator of Sangheilios, which can get as low as 120 degrees (in the less dense jungles and mountain regions) in the "Cool Cycle" which is their respective Winter, only without bitter cold; and the "Hot Cycle" (I'm not following Covenant time terminology in this, like with units and so on, I got lazy in Ti Amo and just had them follow years and months and so-on, just on their "own" calender).  In the Hot Cycle it can get as high as 180 degrees "if the suns are ambitious" as I make them say.

They do get overheated in those hot areas, like humans get overheated in the summer time of such places like Arizona...or New York City o.0 (or even here in Maine, but it only gets to friggin 80 most of the time)  The hottest I make it get is 200 degrees, but those are desert areas.  I also make the northern and southern hemispheres timber lands like North America, though still considerably warm.

I personally think they're warm blooded; humans can inhabit allot of places with extreme temperatures varying from hot to cold; I don't see why Sangheili can't.  I personally think they have several no-man's-lands, but mostly due to heat.  Even with their resistance to heat, some places can still give them heat-strokes or something rather.

And I also think they're smarter in where they live in natural disaster areas....THEY DON'T.  No one lives in their respective "tornado alley", or their hurricane areas (I imagine that a Sangheilios hurricane can completely and absolutely level an entire city, or most of it), or flood areas...hm, I like it when discussions go like this XD

So, warm blooded or cold blooded, or even in-between?

Warm blooded...so, how 'bout that weather!
"With the stigma feasting upon your flesh I wish you well! Thorns from the fountains of fate licking lepered skin! Worshiped by anyone's mass on our planet hell! What on earth possessed you!?" ~Dimmu Borgir "Kings of the Carnival Creation"

Offline Slaskia

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2010, 09:48:19 AM »
Personally I think they are either warm blooded or somewhere in-between, but until there is more evidence I am not going to chose which.

Weather…oh boy.  Considering they have three suns and two moons, we know they must have some wacky weather.  I would not be surprised if they have hurricanes that make Katrina look like a plain o’ thunderstorm and they largely keep their homesteads away from major hurricane hit zones.  Thel’s keep is near an ocean, though we do not know if that spot is a hurricane prone area.

I do have a couple of keeps that are in the colder regions (Hilvum and Kemot), but obviously those Sangheili have evolved/adapted to such climate.  If it snowed up there, I don’t see said snow lasting long on the ground.

Considering their ‘survival of the strongest/fittest’ mentality, I can see them not really evacuating when a major storm comes.  They probably shrug off the deaths that result as ‘they weren’t strong enough’.  They’d probably shrug off the loss of material possessions as well:  they don’t strike me as the materialistic types like we tend to be.

Offline Spog

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2010, 10:40:29 AM »
Well, in reply to how you think they'd brave storms; I was in the mentality of post-ideology-changes, being post-Covenant would certainly make them realize they should value their lives and lives of others more, since they do not need to sacrifice for the Covenant anymore.  But yeah, in the past I imagine them to have the "survival of the fittest" mentality.

I also imagine their regular thunderstorms to be very strong (dur xD); as a result, I made them to have energy shields over windows and doors when storms hit (turn on automatically); even the strongest of windows and doors can be broken/thrown wide open by the terrifying gales they have.  In the cities, if they have skyscrapers they aren't very high, and are not the standard square shape like ours are; spherical in nature, or like "the pointy thing" in San Fransisco :P.

I imagine private houses would probably have mansard roofs, rather than triangular ones, and only be limited to two floors.  A friend of mine also theorized that their homes could be Geodesic Domes (http://www.domelivingmagazine.com/homefnt.jpg).  Not only are geodesic domes very resistant to strong winds and storms, they can deflect heat better (and contain it as well, for Sangheili that live in cooler regions), and I've seen some that have solar panels that fit right in seamlessly (I think it's safe to say that Sangheili would harness the power of three suns!).

I also do believe they are not materialistic; they would probably only be hung over for losing a small thing like a marriage pendant or something, but get over it quickly.

But like any other sentient species out there, there's bound to be greedy hoarders; taking all the money and resources for themselves, living lavishly while scoffing at those less fortunate.  But I can tell you think the same with the way people treated Sari when she was homeless and friggin' dying right on a curb.
"With the stigma feasting upon your flesh I wish you well! Thorns from the fountains of fate licking lepered skin! Worshiped by anyone's mass on our planet hell! What on earth possessed you!?" ~Dimmu Borgir "Kings of the Carnival Creation"

Offline Spog

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #24 on: February 26, 2010, 07:36:21 PM »
Random brainburp: Suppose Sangheili, in their homes, actually had the dim, colorful, soothing lights of their cruisers (my my, such a big, bad, tough, elite species has to make their ships cushy for themselves over others :P).  They implemented their home lighting into cruiser lighting.  Sangheilios has three big hard suns, and I imagine even they would get weary of being blasted by them all day, just like we get from our one sun.  And they like to wind down in a nice, neutral blue light, kicking back on a recliner with a book.  I personally think they have slightly better nightvision than humans, but not by much.  Just enough to be able to navigate a dim house without tripping, and to be able to read of course.

I'd actually like lights like that.  A nice purple, blue or green to sit and meditate in.  One Sangheili families' den (that I made up) is heavily furnished as well with plants.  All four walls have fence-like racks covering, all twisted with different types of vines that have varying blossoming flowers.  Sunlight would just make the room green, and it'd be nice and sweet smelling.  That adds to I think they're more in tune with nature as well (not Na'vi [Avatar] in tune, by any means, although I think how they're literally connected to their nature is really cool), but more in tune with it nonetheless.  What with lacking of being connected to materials, they connect to things that allow them to live and breathe, to marvel the beauty and mystery behind the existence of everything and themselves.  Seeing a lake reflecting the red sky would be spectacular, if a bit creepy...going out on a sailboat would be epic lol.
"With the stigma feasting upon your flesh I wish you well! Thorns from the fountains of fate licking lepered skin! Worshiped by anyone's mass on our planet hell! What on earth possessed you!?" ~Dimmu Borgir "Kings of the Carnival Creation"

Offline Slaskia

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2010, 09:27:20 PM »
Just an attempt to wake this topic back up, but a bit ago I got an urge to write down details about one of my OCs keeps:  Sani's to be precise.  I am not going to put spill everything about it here, but the Hilvum keep is rather different from other keeps.   The reason, is a big one...

...Their ancestors were slaves.

Slaves that liberated themselves shortly after the Sangheili/San 'Shyyum war in a bloody conflict and have ruled the land of their former masters ever since.

Now, the obvious question here is would Sangheili be capable of literally enslaving members of their own kind?  I would think so: after all, we as a species did...And still do in some areas (illegally of course).

What do you think?

Offline Spog

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2010, 08:09:37 AM »
Being a slave could possibly be the worst thing that ever, EVER happens to a Sangheili.  Forced to do someone else's will unjustly, being such a species fond of independence.  But I'd also take a bet that they'd quickly rise to a rebellion after a while of abuse, rather than staying complacent and afraid for years and years like humans do.

However, that also leaves open room for hypocrisy and irony.  Some Sangheili's experiences of being slaves could make them curious, and being mentally sadistic, they could open underground slave businesses; much like sweat shops in Los Angeles, or even prostitution rings.  Child slavery and prostitution is a large problem for any species that is sentient and capable of the emotional powers and sadistic powers humans have.

But these businesses would have to be VERY underground, since if they exist in your Ribal state for instance, under Kou; he'd do everything he could to root out these businesses, free the slaves and arrest the operators, then put them to death for crimes against Sangheilian life.  But there's always room for political corruption too, much like Councilor Malic.  Someone who could be bribed to 'ignore' these rings (although I imagine some of them would be generous users of secretive brothels).

My theory is: if they're sentient like us, they're capable of the exact atrocities as us; but also the same goodness as well.
"With the stigma feasting upon your flesh I wish you well! Thorns from the fountains of fate licking lepered skin! Worshiped by anyone's mass on our planet hell! What on earth possessed you!?" ~Dimmu Borgir "Kings of the Carnival Creation"

Offline Slaskia

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2010, 09:53:15 AM »
While I haven’t fleshed out their history completely, including how they were enslaved in the first place, I believe I did figure out how they were kept ‘placid’ in the first place.

They were simply denied knowledge and learning beyond what was needed for the tasks they were forced to do and literally kept underground when they were not working.

If someone is a slave, but doesn’t know or are otherwise denied the knowledge of a better life, do they see themselves as slaves?  The Hilvum didn’t know any thing else, didn’t know any better, until their masters were forced to supply more troops for the war effort toward the end of the war.  Their master’s forces by then had been all but completely decimated and could not risk sending any more of their own:  they needed warriors at home to ensure the slaves did their jobs.  So they started sending slaves in their stead….

It would be their undoing.  While most slaves sent to the frontlines died within the first day, but a few did survive and learned…and…you can guess where this is going. The Hivums, after freeing themselves, never went the route of irony or hypocrisy, but are rather wary of other keeps wanting to enslave them again.

And yes, Kou, when he was alive, would put a stop to such activity…as much as Malic would turn a blind eye to it so long has he benefitted from it.  Zeno, as you can probably guess, would take Kou’s lead in such matters. ;)

Like you, I do believe Sangheili are capable of the same kinds of atrocities as us humans.  That’s one reason why I had Thel’s first wife kill her own child…And why Rtas was abused.  Sangheili culture is no utopia, no culture is.  The only way we could have such a utopia…Is if everyone is the same….

Offline Spog

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #28 on: March 23, 2010, 10:45:33 AM »
Yeah, it's pretty much fact that utopias are impossible; just commonsense.  However, on my Sangheilios, while it's not a utopia, it's still more pleasant than Earth, by a margin atleast.  There's no poverty/not much, and that turns into lack of violence (since the crime rate follows/matches the poverty rate in America).  The most violence there is on Sangheilios is actually in the feudal states, where the laws of the Covenant are still in effect; the reason for them not being gone is because the politicians basically want to continue their power trip over the 'peasants'.  Becoming a warrior saves you from abuse, but it also makes you a sell-out, respectively; and there's in mind that there's no escape of abuse for females, or males with some sort of disability keeping them from 'serving their state'.

In modern states, they still retain a balanced warrior culture with equality, lack of prejudice, and no barbarianism.  It actually befuddles me that a species so fond of family, do not even know their own fathers/mothers, most of the time, apart from civilians (I'm actually talking mostly out of 'Ti Amo' cannon here).  The walls of what a family should be for both species kind of crumbled when interspecies relationships formed between adults and children; refugees of both species affected by the civil war winding up with their so-called enemy and forming a relationship.  Something as innocent as children forces the two species to tolerate each other for the benefit of the youth, who would hopefully grow up with little prejudice.

But the dark side, of course, leaves orphans that did not find their way to safety to be picked up as slaves for sadists; possibly some used exclusively for torture for extreme sadists, like that organization in the movie "Hostel".

Actually, your idea of the Hilvum slaves is really close to a plot for an OC I had for a while now.  It was an underground brothel, and the women kept literally underground don't know what choice or freedom is, have only seen daylight through the foundation windows of the basement they were forced to stay in; they've never even worn clothes (only thin sheets and body heat keep them warm).  Ironically the brothel is owned by a rich, frivolous woman, who uses her own charm to bring in 'clients'.  The OC, who was born into the brothel, does manage to stay with her mother, but the day finally comes, when she's fourteen, that she is taken by a client.  I won't spoil anything else, but it's going to be in flashback form of my fic "And I Am Suffering" (actually inspired by a song by operatic Gothic metal band "Virgin Black").
"With the stigma feasting upon your flesh I wish you well! Thorns from the fountains of fate licking lepered skin! Worshiped by anyone's mass on our planet hell! What on earth possessed you!?" ~Dimmu Borgir "Kings of the Carnival Creation"

Offline Scarface

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Re: Sangheili biology & culture discussion
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2010, 05:53:30 AM »
Oh man, those kinds of things happen if you haven't visited a forum for some time; it just continues without you. So I'll just jump in to the actual term of discussion instead of picking up every point, creating a monstrous post of 20000 words, maybe I'll pick up the rest later :D

Slavery, that's a good question... For my part I think there's no need of slavery cause Sangheili already have a society with traits we would call som sort of slavery. It seems to be similar to the society of the ancient world of Sparta with a bourgeousie formed by the warriorclass led by aristocrats (Kaidon and in my personal canon, over the Kaidons of a bigger region stands one of twelve Lords led by one Allvater) who make the politics and fight for territory and recources and unter those are the bondsmen/thralls who act as workers, forming agriculture, and all other needed functions the upper class can't produce for themselves due to the lack of time they have cause of politics and wars they lead. Actually there is a compulsory military service for all males when adulted, as all males are trained to fight from the moment they can stand, but the ones with great skills in battle seem so continue their career as warriors with the possibility to rise up in the society as arostocrats whilst the lesser skilled males return to be workers.
To be a thrall mustn't be a bad thing for Sangheili cause even those seem to have rights and looking at the dependency of the aristocrats from the work the bondsmen execute, they better look that those thralls are satisfied with their masters. They may live on the ground the aristocrats protect and rule and have to deliver som percent of the products/work they produce, but a strike from the bondsmen would brake the neck of each leader. Actually I even think the Asketics' main funktion is to act as some sort of police, watching that each leader of a fort guarantees all the rights to the men on his lands and doesn't starts to realise funny ideas, not delivering troops to their Lords or sorts of this. Asketics may instantly kill such "dictators" what would explain why this society based on martialic feudalism and manorialism was so stable over long time. Conflicts between clans seem to be okay due to the fact that in sangheilian culture only the strong have the right to survive and rule, so a clan taking over or completely killing another clan during the fight for territory seems to be no tabu.
Intresting to know would be what status females have in sangheilian society. In Sparta women had mostly no politocal power and weren't counted as burgess but more as thralls, still they had some status for being the ones who give birth to the next Spartians and even have been trained to fight so they aren't defenseless during times when the men are at war, leaving their homes not defenseless. Same goes for Vikings/Teutons where women could fight too and the primary woman was the one giving orders in the house, posessing the keyes of the house and stable and even ruled over the secundary women of the man. Could be similar for female Sangheili, having no political power at all but still some sort of status due to the fact the sangheilian culture seems so clearly related to the ones of the Spartans and Vikings/Teutons. (Amusingly Sangheili do have more of real Spartans than the modern ones in Halo do :D). Sangheili females may not fight wars but they give birth to the nex generation of warriors and heroes and the seeds only grow if the soil is properly cultivated, so I don't think females are without rights and abused but protected and for biological needs of the males we know too well convected and ensnared.
The lowest part of the sangheilian society seems to be the ones living in shame. Homeless who were banned from the forts, who can give them security and nutriture, due to some fact (massive loss of honor, crimes, etc.), bastards (meaning not the children of swordsmen but whores or males of less rank), criminals and other, who seem to live as vagabunds in the void parts of Sanghelios, spending their lives as opportunists stealing from forts or waiting for a chance to somehow return to a fort either by merit or an assault, killing all former inhabitants.

Uhm, what was the term of discussion again? Ah, slavery.
The only room I see for "real" slaves would be if a clan takes over another one, humiliating the beaten Sangheili by imprison and abuse them due to the fact they have lost most of their honor by letting themselves be conquered and be depicted as the weaker. Thought most Sangheili would rather kill themselves than be slaves.